Mickey Kaus for U.S. Senate

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"Journolist" Was Not a Progressive Idea (July 27, 2010 2:20 AM)

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July 29, 2010 12:07 PM

From: john b (johnbaxter22@hotmail.com)

Subject: re: shut up

It wouldn't surprise me if all the spam in this comment thread is some lefty's version of - shut up-. It's a juvenile way to limit discussion but that's never bothered them before.

July 29, 2010 11:07 AM

From: Stan Honig (sehonig@msn.com)

Subject: re: Journalist

When will someone understand that "progressives" are totalitarian. They are like religious fanatics to whom any deviation from recieved truth is heresy.

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From: M. Bouffant (m.bouffant@gmail.com)

Subject: Journolist

Jeez, Kaus, do you even have enough pride in this crummy web log to remove the spam?

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July 28, 2010 6:07 PM

From: wedding

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July 28, 2010 5:07 PM

From: Obdurate

Subject: re: Journolist

What did Journolist accomplish? It gave a collection smug left wing journalists plenty of rope, with which they have been hung in the court of public opinion.

July 28, 2010 12:07 PM

From: DWAnderson (dwa@alumni.uchicago.edu)

Subject: Journolist

This analysis seems spot on. Having read through the links in this post, I think it's moderately amusing that most of the defenses of Journolist now consit of "It was only groupthink, not a conspiracy." That is the point Mickey made in early 2009, for which her was told by Spencer Ackerman to STFU. Mass internet communications (even in private) are not the SAME as small scale face-to-face communications. Just as emails are not the same as peronal letters. They are different in ways that may not be obvious at first. The Journolist participants now know at least one way they are different: your private conversations can't easily be archived and republished to the world. And the participants were supposed to be so smart! Oops. Republished at http://thunor.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!71C238B5E0E3724D!3475.entry

July 28, 2010 10:07 AM

From: Jim Bell (filioscotia@gmail.com)

Subject: re: Journolistas

From where I sit, it appears the Journolistas were demonstrating that everything Conservatives say about them is true.

July 28, 2010 1:07 AM

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From: Daniel75 (djk@math.mit.edu)

Subject: re:

What dismays me most about the journolist people is that they all seem to feel good about talking and listening mainly to like minded people. In contrast, Rush Limbaugh (for example) mostly talks about things that liberals do and say. He always has sound bites from democrats and liberals, and reacts to them and argues against what they have said. It seems to me that ignoring your adversaries (and trying to suppress their views; as liberals tend to do) makes it almost impossible to convert them or their followers to your side. Rush is very effective at making converts because he does the opposite. He tries, and often succeeds in making liberal positions look stupid. By ignoring him and trying to silence him (and his ilk) liberals leave the impression that they cannot answer his arguments and therefore need to silence him in order to win. Is this wise?

July 27, 2010 7:07 PM

From: Ali Karim Bey

Subject: re: Journolist

Hey Mickey, You are in the right, and Journolist is in the wrong. Thanks...AKB

July 27, 2010 7:07 PM

From: Carl Pham (carlpham8@gmail.com)

Subject: Volt at $41,000!

Mickey! Leave those JournoList wankers alone. They're stupid clowns, but they're dangerous Stalinist stupid clowns, and they might steal your pension or have you shot. Instead, what about the Chevy Volt costing north of FORTY thousand dollars? Opine. Give us some old-fashioned car talk, you old hound. Enough about the juicebox mafia. God they're boring. Even writing a sentence about them makes me want to sandpaper the stain off my fingertips aieeeee...

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From: Dave Weigel

Subject: re:

I'm in ur slate, takin ur paychecks. http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20100727/pl_yblog_upshot/ex-washington-post-blogger-david-weigel-joins-slate

July 27, 2010 2:07 PM

From: rmark (markseagraves@hotmail.com)

Subject: re: Jlist

'People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices." Adam Smith

July 27, 2010 2:07 PM

From: JorgXMcKie (jorgxmckie@netscape.net)

Subject: re: Journolist

This is just a strong confirmation that young "intellectuals" are not nearly as smart as they think, and that getting into a group that only includes them and those like them is toxic. In a side not, I for one, would appreciate a link from Mr. Reihan to where he dealt "empathetically" with, say, a Tea Party, or Sarah Palin. I'm not holding my breath, however. These folks have spent way too much time listening to their K-12 teachers telling how wonderful they all are.

July 27, 2010 1:07 PM

From: Tex Lovera (texlovera@msn.com)

Subject: re: good post

Mickey- I'm with you. No good could come of this. As for the list being "self-correcting", no. It got "corrected" (if you can all it that) from outside via a leak. Nobody WITHIN the list was doing the correcting WITHIN the list.

July 27, 2010 1:07 PM

From: mdv59

Subject: Competition vs. Collusion

The notion that something happening on the internet is benign because it has a real world analog is not necessarily true. While private parties and emails may serve the same purpose, the difference with a well subscribed listserv is the scale. In the past a group of like minded journalists might have been able to control the message in a small town, but thanks to the internet Jornolist was able to do it on a national scale and achieve a critical mass which made a real impact. It's hard to know what effect Jornolist had on the national press, but we can say with absolute certainty that anything less than unbridled competition will diminish the results. That's true whether it's ideas, labor unions or monopolistic companies. I've been trying to think of the "right wing" equivalent to Jornolist. I guess with the Palins/Becks/Limbaughs of the world they don't need a secret list, they make no apologies as to what message they're trying to push. Subtly need not apply.

July 27, 2010 10:07 AM

From: Walt Gilbert (ldotters@gmail.com)

Subject: re: Journolist

Anyone who's ever participated in any kind of listserv knows all the real action takes place between individuals outside the listserv, through direct emails. producer@npr.org: >OMG!!! >Did you see the thread where Joe Klein >agreed with me!?!? dcorn@mojowire.net: Totes! WTG! (I think he wants you! LOL)

July 27, 2010 9:07 AM

From: Alice Finkel (alfin2100@hotmail.com)

Subject: re: Journolist groupthink censorship talking points

Journolist groupthinkers will not appreciate your perspective on their circular jerkular, but it clearly rings of truth. These foolish baby journos and thuggish social engineers want to control the message. They deserve every bit of public dirty laundry airing that they get.

July 27, 2010 8:07 AM

From: Mike G (mikegebert@gmail.com)

Subject: re: Journolist

You cover the downsides well but I think you left out one that relates absolutely to the careerist point. What compels us to do our best work, our best thinking? The fact that our enemies might see inferior work and mock it! It's obvious that J-List removed that powerful inhibitor of dumbass running off at the mouth... only now we do get to see their banal childishness in all its glory after all. So it will be interesting to see how their careers fare after that revelation. I mean, Rick Perlstein or Joe Klein have other work to base their reps on, but what exactly has Spencer Ackerboy ever written that was memorable and insightful enough to overcome thinking of him as the guy who was going to push people through windows?

July 27, 2010 8:07 AM

From: Patrick (patrick_kelly@hotmail.com)

Subject: re:

I'm not so sure that Ms. Spitz regrets her comments, as evidenced by a very lame apology. c'mon, she couldn't even bring herself to say that she did not wish that Limbaugh would die. Seems she wanted to do what was necessary to save her job, but still keep her lib-street cred.

July 27, 2010 8:07 AM

From: Gavin (gavin6@gmail.com)

Subject: Journolist 'Not Progressive'

Your anti-Journolist jag is dumb, Mickey--and I speak as a heartbroken Kaus-4-Senate buzzsaw. Sometimes we share emails with friends; sometimes we publish blogposts. Sharing messages with my various cliques doesn't corrode civic siblinghood. As a practical matter, the more friends I share private messages with, the greater is my risk of exposure--and to that extent, Dave Weigel was a fool. But your point--that Journolist-like practices are in themselves threatening to the civic culture--is dumb. Indeed, the problem is self-correcting: I can spill my heart out to one or two friends and hold their confidance, but when I email a group--even a clubby-feeling one--I'm an idiot if I expect airtightness. No?

July 27, 2010 8:07 AM

From: Reihan (reihan@gmail.com)

Subject: I promise you, I'm on the team

There was a team. I was not a member of it. I do have a team, but it's mainly N.Y.-based, and it is a big part of why I moved from Washington, D.C. to New York in January. (I can send you a list of my ten closest friends based on phone logs and email traffic. An economist, an MLB lawyer, a lawyer-carpenter, an anthropologist ... only one opinion journalist, and he's also a right-winger.) My closest friends in D.C. were a sports journalist, my aforementioned co-author, and a deeply apolitical journalist currently bouncing around the world, writing stories on the Central African Republic, etc. I see where you might draw the careerist conclusion. But my journalistic method -- if you can call it that -- relies heavily on empathy. This might not be the smartest approach, but I like to think about why one might do something that I wouldn't do. More broadly, I think the email aspect was pretty trivial -- groupthink is the problem, but groupthink is inevitable. I should have underlined that *I don't think JournoList was a good thing.* I think it was a useful thing for its members, and I think the hyperventilating is excessive.

July 27, 2010 6:07 AM

From: Tommy Tucker (studiotinc@gmail.com)

Subject: re: JournoList

Friends meet at a gay bar. Think W. Hollywood and the collective creative process. It's all been said before: see The Pink Swastika, then place a cute little mustache on their leader. Calling them the David Geffen bridage would be more accurate.

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