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Tesla Playing With Fire (May 21, 2010 12:15 PM)

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From: mark

Subject: re: Tesla Playing With Fire

shouldn't Tesla take notice of the fact that once the government took the public shares of GM from its stockholders and gave them to the UAW -- the UAW refused to consider offering the same labor concessions to Ford that it provided to GM and Chrysler -- because Ford didn't take the kool-aid?

May 24, 2010 8:05 PM

From: Duke (smith@smith.com)

Subject: re: Tesla Playing With Fire

Bodang, a word about not knowing facts in the first place if you will. True, GM paid the loan portion. What you and Whitacre left unsaid is that GM paid off that loan portion from a different gov't loan program, not from any actual earnings. They took taxpayer money from the TARP account to pay off taxpayer money loaned to it under another account. SIGTARP has the documentary proof and said so publicly.

May 24, 2010 7:05 PM

From: TheLunatic

Subject: re: Sestak

Just wondering . . . isn't it a bit self-serving for a non-incumbent candidate for a Senate nomination to suggest it should be legal and proper to offer a non-incumbent candidate for a Senate nomination a position of power?

Granted, of course, Kaus is non-viable enough that he's unlikely to get the offer

May 24, 2010 4:05 PM

From: BODANG (probablynotandrewsullivan@doesitreallymatter.com)

Subject: Kausbots enraged by reality

I know I'll be hammered for introducing facts into a Mickey Kaus-related website, but GM did, in fact, pay off its loans. You all are probably confused by the fact that 2 things happened in a fairly short time- the government lent GM some money, and the government bought a large amount of GM stock. (This is a simplified explanation for the Kaus fan, but the essentials are there). GM then repaid the loan, but the government still owns the stock. This is explained in most articles about the repayment, but it is not explained on hotair.com and Drudge, where most Kausbots get their news (what about the onion?-ed) Ed, so help me God...... So feel free to ignore these facts, as I'm sure you will, but at least you won't be able to claim later that you were never informed in the first place.

May 24, 2010 11:05 AM

From: Wagener

Subject: re: Tesla Playing With Fire

I grew up in the union post apocalyptic Detroit-Toledo corridor, so I'm not going to say anything positive about unions, but the Fremont venture wasn't too sucessful; it lost money year after year.

May 24, 2010 10:05 AM

From: Leslie

Subject: re: Tesla Playing With Fire

To Larry: GM = UAW. Did you not get the word? Obama took GM from investors and gave it to the UAW. Then we get the liar Whitacre claiming he paid taxpayers back. Liar.

May 24, 2010 10:05 AM

From: Duke (smith@smith.com)

Subject: re: Tesla Playing With Fire

There are two models for the American auto industry: the GM-UAW model and that of Honda/Toyota/BMW generally in the southeast since the mid 80's. One is bankrupt, one is succeessful. If this lawless administration pushes UAW on the Tesla/Toyota people, the venture is doomed. Hopefully it won't turn Freemont into Detroit.

May 24, 2010 10:05 AM

From: ForNow

Subject: re: Tesla Playing With Fire

The font size of the body text and comment text is way too small - especially for a political campaign Website.

May 24, 2010 10:05 AM

From: Lester

Subject: re: Tesla Playing With Fire

I love my non-union made in TEXAS Toyota Tundra. I do my best to never by union products because the money eventually ends up in the Democorrupts.

May 24, 2010 10:05 AM

From: cthulhu

Subject: re: Tesla Playing With Fire

Why are people assuming that "anti-Union" is a bug and not a feature? We've seen unions destroy manufacturers, school systems, law enforcement, and public safety while amassing bloated pension obligations that were underfunded in the first place and raided for boondoggles in the second....why wouldn't anyone "Look for the Union Label" and run like hell the other direction?

May 24, 2010 10:05 AM

From: David Dennis (david@amazing.com)

Subject: re: Tesla Playing With Fire

I love the idea of Tesla, and they made a great car in the Roadster. Furthermore, I think without Martin Eberhard's extensive promotional campaign, electric cars would not have taken off in the way they did. After Martin was fired, a lot of my loyalty to the company died, because Martin had defined the company in my eyes. The marketing and promotion he did was darn near perfect. Whether Martin was the right person to lead the company I leave to someone else. He was DEFINITELY the right public face for the company. When he left, straightforward statements about the company and its operations vanished at the same time. If I had been Elon Musk, and Martin had made such massive mistakes he could no longer manage manufacturing, I would have hired someone else to manage manufacturing, leaving Martin in his vital role as an enthusiastic advocate of the car and its promise. Tesla's caving to the UAW is going to make their cars more expensive and poorer quality. There's no excuse for that. It looks to me like the Nissan Leaf is about to win in this segment. The car is finished and working, and the price is only $32k or $25k after incentives. (I think it's $20k when you factor in California's incentives). The Nissan Leaf is being made at one of the Southern plants (Honda/Toyota/BMW) and is just as green and electric as the Model S. The Leaf looks cool, at least to me, and is luxury equipped, so I think Tesla is going to have a tough time convincing people the Model S is worth $50k. D PS I agree with others that the type size of this site should be increased significantly and something should be done about its ugly typography generally.

May 22, 2010 11:05 AM

From: bodang

Subject: Kauslogic

The UAW makes much better cars, according to Kaus. Example: non-union Toyotas have numerous brake problems, union-built cars do not...........Don't shoot the messenger Kausbots, just applying his "Union Proximity Equals Union Cause" logic.

May 21, 2010 7:05 PM

From: BCP (beercanpolitics@verizon.net)

Subject: re: Tesla Playing With Fire

Perhaps the U.A.W saw the 500 million Tesla got from the "stimulus" package and decided they want a piece of that too! It seems to me Tesla's only product is the $100k electric sports car created so all the Hollywood "elite" can drive them to show how green they are. Not really a product for the rest of us in the real America.

May 21, 2010 4:05 PM

From: Larry Winfrey (elvisoswald@gmail.com)

Subject: re: Tesla Playing With Fire

From a Saturn Fan - The UAW didn't ruin Saturn - GM did. While I do agree that some unions have done for organized labor what the Catholic church has done for organized religion... I think you are basically a moron for attacking organized labor. People see this has an attack against organized labor. So, are you against organized labor?

May 21, 2010 2:05 PM

From: Sharon Johnson (shjohnson@live.com)

Subject: welfare reform

I believe in welfare reform, but I don't agree with what was done. you should have gotten yourself a caseload and worked side by side with a worker trying to implement your new laws. The only people making money with this law is the organizations who are supposedly making welfare people "ready for work". These organizations only work with the cream of the crop leaving the people who really need the help with no expaectations. Some of our recipients cannot read or write, some have hygeine issues some have no teeth. Have you ever tried to go to a dentist using Medi-Cal. You would be lucky to even find one, let alone get an appointment.

May 21, 2010 12:05 PM

From: Andrew S. (asolovay@gmail.com)

Subject: re: Tesla Playing With Fire

This may be a stupid question, but--is the UAW the only union that can organize an auto plant? I can understand that Toyota and Tesla don't want to openly antagonize the unions, but I bet they don't want the UAW there. But maybe instead of saying "we don't want a union", they could just say: "We have no objection to our employees organizing if they so choose, but we *do* oppose their being organized by the UAW, as long as it's a major stockholder of our competitors." I think they could sell the conflict-of-interest argument more easily than a more general anti-union message.

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